Comments on: Calvinism, Predestination, and Proper Bible Interpretation http://rosecreekvillage.com/shammah/archives/81 Practical, effective, tested, and wholehearted Christianity Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:07:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Shammah http://rosecreekvillage.com/shammah/archives/81/comment-page-1#comment-1652 Shammah Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:27:10 +0000 http://rosecreekvillage.com/shammah/archives/81#comment-1652 If there were one Scripture saying God wants all men to be saved and several saying he wants only some to be saved, I'd buy their argument. But it's the other way around. There's zero verses that say God only wants some to be saved. There is one that *suggests* that God might not have wanted Pharaoh during Moses' time to be saved. Even that's not clear, however; there's several ways to understand God's hardening of Pharaoh's heart besides "from the day that Pharaoh was born, God wanted him to be an object of wrath." In light of all that, it's simply foolish to argue around so many Scriptures that clearly say God wishes all would be saved and is delaying the end so that more will be saved. By the way, I've never heard that origin of the predestination-free will debate. Some day, I'm going to have to read Augustine's words on predestination directly instead of reading historians secondhand. Augustine believed in some version of double predestination, according to people I've read, which means he believed some were predestined for hell. If there were one Scripture saying God wants all men to be saved and several saying he wants only some to be saved, I’d buy their argument. But it’s the other way around.

There’s zero verses that say God only wants some to be saved. There is one that *suggests* that God might not have wanted Pharaoh during Moses’ time to be saved.

Even that’s not clear, however; there’s several ways to understand God’s hardening of Pharaoh’s heart besides “from the day that Pharaoh was born, God wanted him to be an object of wrath.”

In light of all that, it’s simply foolish to argue around so many Scriptures that clearly say God wishes all would be saved and is delaying the end so that more will be saved.

By the way, I’ve never heard that origin of the predestination-free will debate. Some day, I’m going to have to read Augustine’s words on predestination directly instead of reading historians secondhand. Augustine believed in some version of double predestination, according to people I’ve read, which means he believed some were predestined for hell.

]]> By: Britt Mooney http://rosecreekvillage.com/shammah/archives/81/comment-page-1#comment-1651 Britt Mooney Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:57:35 +0000 http://rosecreekvillage.com/shammah/archives/81#comment-1651 I read a good article once on where this idea came from ... the whole "predestination - free will" debate, according to this article, was to serve as an explanation for who could be saved even though they did not attend services or do sacraments or whatever. And I've pointed out how, in context, this particular argument is just plain silly when you look at the scriptures you listed. They clearly state, at the very least, God's desire for all to be saved. But strict Calvinists have some very convoluted arguments to justify how "all men" isn't "all men" or "the world" isn't "the world." Peace. I read a good article once on where this idea came from … the whole “predestination – free will” debate, according to this article, was to serve as an explanation for who could be saved even though they did not attend services or do sacraments or whatever.

And I’ve pointed out how, in context, this particular argument is just plain silly when you look at the scriptures you listed. They clearly state, at the very least, God’s desire for all to be saved. But strict Calvinists have some very convoluted arguments to justify how “all men” isn’t “all men” or “the world” isn’t “the world.”

Peace.

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