Fri 18 Sep 2009
The Historic Christian Faith? – Norman Geisler, Luther’s 95 Theses, and the Bible
Posted by Shammah under Bible, Gospel, History, Modern Doctrines
[2] Comments
Error, lies, and foolishness are always excellent motivators for me to blog.
The particular embarrassing morass of propaganda to which I am referring is John Ankerberg’s interview with Norman Geisler. The interview is such a collection of Protestant fantasy that I hardly know where to start.
However, start I will.
Norman Geisler
Geisler doesn’t believe in Purgatory. Fair enough. I don’t either.
To Geisler, however, it appears that means he can pick any parts of church history he wants and say that they don’t either. In his case, he picks Luther’s 95 theses, and then he tells us:
Luther … tacked up his 95 theses and said, “There is no purgatory. There are no prayers for the dead. You can’t buy people out of purgatory.â€
That’s nice. Norman Geisler passes himself off–and is believed to be by a multitude of the ignorant sheep that will always, and should, constitute the majority of the church–an expert on “the historic Christian faith.” Yet, it is apparent from this interview that he makes up his own historic Christian faith.
Martin Luther’s 95 Theses
I have Luther’s 95 theses up on my Christian history web site. Try going there and taking a look at number 26. There Luther suggests that the pope, rather than offering to remit sins through keys of the kingdom that he does not possess, ought to seek remission by praying. The obvious context, as is clear from the rest of the theses, is that the pope ought to be praying for souls in purgatory rather than claiming the ability to release them.
Nothing in the 95 theses denies purgatory. Luther was still a Catholic priest at the time, somewhat under the delusion that the pope was going to support him in his ideas. Thesis 50, for example, says:
Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the pardon-preachers, he would rather that St. Peter’s church should go to ashes, than that it should be built up with the skin, flesh and bones of his sheep.
I’m pretty sure Luther would deny purgatory later, though I’ve never looked it up, and I can’t be certain of it. But during the time of the 95 theses, he was a good Roman Catholic monk.
History
This is history. History is where you read what a person said, and then you tell people what that person said.
History is not taking your own words and wishes and putting them in the mouths of historical figures. Doing that is blasphemy, lying, and deceit, and it will cause God to send you to hell.
Read it for yourself. The Bible says that all liars will have their part in the lake of fire.
Beware, Norman Geisler and John Ankerberg. I don’t care what service you think you are rendering to people by defending them from Jehovah’s Witnesses, Way missionaries, Mormons, and Roman Catholics. If you defend them by lying, you will have your part in the lake of fire. If you create a new gospel, a new Christian history, and a way that is contrary to the apostolic way–no matter how much you defend it with the Bible–then you are to be anathametized by all true Christians.
The Bible
Geisler also presents an imaginary history of the Bible in that interview. Almost nothing he says is true. I don’t have time to go into it here, nor time to research all the quotes I’d have to research for you, but I have a page on it and I can highly recommend A High View of Scripture?
‘Nuff said, as the saying goes.
I’m not Roman Catholic. Your disagreement with me was a lot longer but a lot nicer than what a Roman Catholic guy wrote to me. He said:
“Numerous other things also convince me that you are heretical, such as your blind and imbalanced attacks on the Catholic Church …
“I am willing to write you again once you have admitted your sin, renounced your gnosticism, and returned to Communion with the Biblical and historical Church. I will pray for you that the Blessed Mother and the saints will assist you in coming home.”
But I’m not a gnostic, either, just a Christian trying to obey Christ. But lying by Christians and pretended scholars makes me very angry.
You cannot defend the truth with lies, and mr. defendtheword, Dr. Geisler was purposely lying to you in order to defend a supposed truth you both believe.
All liars have their part in the lake of fire. Sorry. I didn’t start that idea, Jesus and the apostle John did.
This comment’s format was edited by Shammah for ease of reading only; no words were changed, added, or deleted, except “Shammah wrote” to indicate quotes.
Shammah wrote: To Geisler, however, it appears that means he can pick any parts of church history he wants and say that they don’t either. In his case, he picks Luther’s 95 theses, and then he tells us …
This is history. History is where you read what a person said, and then you tell people what that person said. History is not taking your own words and wishes and putting them in the mouths of historical figures. Doing that is blasphemy, lying, and deceit, and it will cause God to send you to hell.
It is these kinds of comments that give Christians bad name, when those who read your blog come upon such accusations coming from you I wonder they think about it? Think about it for a moment, maybe they will suspect that they are being manipulated and emotionally blackmailed into agreeing with you? Fear of hell if they disagree with you is the old trick.
Please no more bullying; pray before you embark on writing a post, then spend some time reading the word of God. Use same principles you will find in the Bible, and I’m not talking about love your enemies here, I’m talking about dispute in the church stuff. You should know much about it after all you have blog that deals with Church History. Now I have to agree with you that Luther was Catholic at the time of writing 95 theses but his goal was to change it. When this didn’t happen he moved on, you may think that he was one of the biggest tragedies for Catholic Church. I happen to think that he made Catholics more honest, even today there are many issues in all denominations that bring much evil in the name of the Lord. Please note I’m not anti Catholic, even though I do disagree on many issues that are still present within the institution. And the sad thing is that for many Catholics they refuse to separate the two, for them Church institution is just the same as people that attend the Church. Which is very strange, especially when you find out that there are some parts of the Catholic Church that hold disagreements with certain wings of the same church and the Pope himself.
Secondly by removing the Bible from people by forcing them to check the meaning of the Bible with their priest they remove any options of God working with the individuals through the work of the Holy Spirit. Now I do accept that there are progressive Catholic churches, but from my experience with dealing with some of my friends, same answer seams to come back, you ether accept teaching of the Holy Catholic Church or be damned. So what happens to those infightings that happen from time to time amongst the Cardinals?
Anyway my last point, simply saying things are lies, will not be acceptable. Please make sure you provide evidence to the contrary before making such strong non brotherly claims.
 Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honour one another above yourselves.
 Ephesians 4:2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
 Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
 Colossians 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
 1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
 Hebrews 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
 1 Thessalonians 5:15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else.
 Philippians 2:3-5 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus.
REJECT FACTIOUS MAN
Titus 3:10 – 11 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
1. Be very careful to not manipulate this Scripture (use this disciplinary process) to satisfy an attitude your nursing because of the offence.
2. Mat_7:1-5 talks about displaced judgment. Remember God will judge you based on how you judge others.
3. Remember the whole point here is to restore the sinful person. Restore them to fellowship and peace. You should not look to take vengeance or cause your brother to sin or others to sin against him.
4. Make sure you are totally innocent in this matter between all parties before you administer such discipline on your brother.